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Mark Jackson

The faux Benghazi outrage seems to be less aimed at Obama than at Hillary's presumed 2016 candidacy.

And here's Dick Cheney on the subect:

'They should have been ready before anything ever happened,' Cheney told MailOnline exclusively during a party in Georgetown celebrating the launch of a new book by former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld...'When we were there, on our watch, we were always ready on 9/11, on the anniversary,' he recalled.

"On the anniversary." Charlie Pierce calls this taking the Great Mulligan.


Mr. Clinton did not tell a fib.

He committed perjury. A felony that has cause many other people to wind up in federal prison.....even when the perjury was about consensual sex.

Mark Jackson

Dann, I'm certain you wouldn't write that without having at hand the names of some folks sent to federal prison for perjuring themselves *solely* about consensual sex. I'm curious as to who they were. Can you enlighten us?

Mike Peterson

Yes, I was going to ask to see the list of people who have served time in a federal prison solely for denying that they had engaged in consensual sex with an adult. And please put an asterisk next to any who were jailed despite having attempted to draw a distinction between actual full-on sexual intercourse and "fooling around" up to and including fellatio.

Inquiring minds want to know. Everyone else thinks it's pretty damn silly and a massive waste of taxpayer money.

Sherwood Harrington

Dann? Hello? Hello? Is this thing working?


You'll have to look back at 60 Minutes from that period of time. They profiled several individuals that were serving time for committing perjury.

It was one of those rare episodes that I watched.

Fortuitously, Google is not only your friend, but mine as well.

I think the following article from the NYTimes pretty well covers the questions that were asked. Including oral sex and other kinds of sex where the convicted perjurers attempted their own version of linguistic judo that sought to redefine the word "is".


The fact is that Mr. Clinton is an admitted perjurer. About consensual sex...as a material matter in a civil trial.


Mike Peterson

I'll grant you the technical point -- people have served time for perjury alone.

But it's awfully argumentative. Clinton was testifying in a Ken Starr fishing expedition and his parsing of whether oral sex and intercourse are the same thing was only marginally "perjury," which that article kind of delves into at the end.

More to the point, the other examples are, to the extent that I'm gonna look into them, based on perjury in serious situations rather than trivial sideshows. That's not a political statement -- what I mean is that, for instance, Pam Parsons had launched a $75 million libel suit against Sports Illustrated, based on her contention that they lied, and her perjured testimony was on a point that would have disproved her own point and the basis of the lawsuit. She lost the lawsuit anyway, but served four months for the lie, which, again, was central and germane.

Battalino lied and subourned perjury in order to defend herself against a malpractice suit, based on her having had a relationship (not just isolated sex) with a patient. She did not go to jail, in fact, but served six months house detention, which I suppose means that whether or not she went to jail depends on what your definition of jail is.

I'll grant you, Clinton should have said, "Well, yeah, so what?" and I wish he had. But if trying to lawyer your way around the definition of "having sex" and not satisfying a judge amounts to "high crimes and misdemeanors," then we're all headed to the Big House.

And I say that as someone who remembers when "making love" to someone meant flirting. And intends to use Kenneth Starr's dictionary if I am asked how many women I have made love to -- just to protect myself legally.


First off...me too. I wish Mr. Clinton could have just told the truth in the first place. Even better would have been to acknowledge that he had solicited (unsuccessfully) sex from Ms. Jones instead of casting aspersions on her character. She would have become just another footnote in the over-active hormonal life of Bill Clinton.

But he didn't, and here we are.

Central to the point is the Mr. Clinton signed the federal law on sexual harassment that allowed prosecutors and plaintiff's attorneys to go on fishing expeditions. The law he signed established that it was permissible to seek evidence that created a behavioral pattern of harassment as justification for finding the defendant guilty (criminally or civilly) even if there was little (if any) evidence that the defendant had harassed a specific plaintiff. That law made the question germane/material to the case on which he was being questioned.

This wasn't Ken Starr's fishing expedition. It was Paula Jones'. And it was a fishing expedition that Mr. Clinton thought was appropriate for the rest of America to live with.

So why shouldn't he have to live with it as well?

I go back to Paula Jones; the women that never had sex with Bill Clinton but who's reputation was smeared because he was powerful and she was not. Every time I read an obfuscation of the historical record, I wonder why her right to a trial based on the facts is worth less that Presidential convenience. Were we talking about the president of General Motors (or Microsoft, or GE, or...) would we be as cavalier with the purported victim's rights or would be pound on the president for lying to save his skin?


Mike Peterson

If you don't think there is a connection between Paula Jones's lawsuit and the Arkansas Project funded by Scaife, I'm not going to argue the point.

But, while her lawsuit was initially dismissed, Clinton interrupted the appeal with an out-of-court settlement and a check for $850,000. If you think that's not significant, please send me a check for that insignificant amount.

She had a right to a trial. She took the money. Nobody took away her right to a trial.

And this is totally off the point. Well-funded legal harassment of anybody, president of the country or president of the country club, is still underhanded and dishonest. And the pattern of fatcat harassment is undemocratic, shameful and unpatriotic.

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